Dynomotion

Group: DynoMotion Message: 5357 From: tmday7 Date: 6/28/2012
Subject: Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
Tom,
Got the starts of a 4th axis and was wondering what you think of this encoder for a DC servo with kflop closing the loop.
http://www.amtencoder.com/Product/AMT102

Thanks,
Troy

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
>
> If you have a Servo as your Spindle that is very possible.  You could use an M
> code to execute a program in KFLOP to reconfigure your Coordinate System to
> either include the axis as the A axis or to not include it (have it operate as a
> spindle).  It might also set a global persist variable so that the Spindle.c
> program knows what output to control as the current spindle for M3,M4,M5,S
> commands (mill spindle or lathe spindle).  You wouldn't need any external logic
> board to do any switching. 
>
>
> If the Spindle is controlled as an axis it can easily be commanded to positions
> as well as commanded to jog at constant speed like a Spindle.  Also the encoder
> position can be used to gear the Z axis for threading and rigid tapping.  It is
> just a matter of the axis is told to do.
>
> Regards
> TK
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, April 13, 2011 8:58:48 AM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] 4:th axis combined spindle
>
>  
> Hi Tom,
> Planning for future where I want to be able to use A-axis and switch over to use
> this axis as Spindle. Have a look at following at Youtube
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2-Kdud7eiA&feature=BF&list=UL1xv603HHs3U&index=10
>
>
> This for smaller parts all-in-one instead of lathe job first then mill.
> He is using somekind of logic board to make the switch from A-axis to Spindle.
> How can this be done with Kflop/Kanalog? I am planning to use a smallish AC
> servo for this ~.5kW 7500 max rpm with 2:1 or 3:1 belt drive.
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 5364 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 6/29/2012
Subject: Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
Hi Troy,
 
I've not a big fan of those.  They work differently than a standard optical encoder that puts out nice clean equally spaced encoder "steps".  Instead they use software interpolation of just a few poles which results in some noise and non-linearity and pulses that come in an irregular manner.  But some users have reported good results.  See: 
 
 
Regards
TK
 
 

Group: DynoMotion Message: 5367 From: tmday7 Date: 6/29/2012
Subject: Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
Hi Tom,
Ya ive seen some of others posted results, but if anyone is going to know of pros and cons of such things, I know that you would. :)

For same price i found some Heds 5500 E05 and US digital E3-1000-315-I.

The servo motor i got coming has a Tach on it, dont know any of the TACH specs yet. Can a tach be used by kflop to close the loop?

Thanks again,
Troy

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Troy,
>  
> I've not a big fan of those.  They work differently than a standard optical encoder that puts out nice clean equally spaced encoder "steps".  Instead they use software interpolation of just a few poles which results in some noise and non-linearity and pulses that come in an irregular manner.  But some users have reported good results.  See: 
>  
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DynoMotion/message/4103
>  
> Regards
> TK
>  
>  
>
> From: tmday7 <brotroy7@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 8:24 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
>
>
>  
> Tom,
> Got the starts of a 4th axis and was wondering what you think of this encoder for a DC servo with kflop closing the loop.
> http://www.amtencoder.com/Product/AMT102
>
> Thanks,
> Troy
>
> --- In mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bengt,
> >
> > If you have a Servo as your Spindle that is very possible.  You could use an M
> > code to execute a program in KFLOP to reconfigure your Coordinate System to
> > either include the axis as the A axis or to not include it (have it operate as a
> > spindle).  It might also set a global persist variable so that the Spindle.c
> > program knows what output to control as the current spindle for M3,M4,M5,S
> > commands (mill spindle or lathe spindle).  You wouldn't need any external logic
> > board to do any switching. 
> >
> >
> > If the Spindle is controlled as an axis it can easily be commanded to positions
> > as well as commanded to jog at constant speed like a Spindle.  Also the encoder
> > position can be used to gear the Z axis for threading and rigid tapping.  It is
> > just a matter of the axis is told to do.
> >
> > Regards
> > TK
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > To: mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wed, April 13, 2011 8:58:48 AM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] 4:th axis combined spindle
> >
> >  
> > Hi Tom,
> > Planning for future where I want to be able to use A-axis and switch over to use
> > this axis as Spindle. Have a look at following at Youtube
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2-Kdud7eiA&feature=BF&list=UL1xv603HHs3U&index=10
> >
> >
> > This for smaller parts all-in-one instead of lathe job first then mill.
> > He is using somekind of logic board to make the switch from A-axis to Spindle.
> > How can this be done with Kflop/Kanalog? I am planning to use a smallish AC
> > servo for this ~.5kW 7500 max rpm with 2:1 or 3:1 belt drive.
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 5368 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 6/29/2012
Subject: Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
Hi Troy,
 
I thought the main attraction or the AMT encoders was cost. I thought you can get them for ~$29 where optical encoders are at least double that.
 
Regarding the Tach: no a tachometer measures velocity not position. It can be helpful to stabilize the servo especially when glass scales are used. But if you have a high resolution encoder on the motor shaft then motor shaft velocity can be derived from the encoder so a Tach is not really useful.
 
Regards
TK


Group: DynoMotion Message: 5369 From: tmday7 Date: 6/29/2012
Subject: Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
Hi Tom,
I found the optical cost on ebay. :) Could the Tach be usefull when using the 4th axis as a lathe spindle?

Thanks,
Troy

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Troy,
>  
> I thought the main attraction or the AMT encoders was cost. I thought you can get them for ~$29 where optical encoders are at least double that.
>  
> Regarding the Tach: no a tachometer measures velocity not position. It can be helpful to stabilize the servo especially when glass scales are used. But if you have a high resolution encoder on the motor shaft then motor shaft velocity can be derived from the encoder so a Tach is not really useful.
>  
> Regards
> TK
>
>
> From: tmday7 <brotroy7@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 11:16 AM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
>
>
>  
> Hi Tom,
> Ya ive seen some of others posted results, but if anyone is going to know of pros and cons of such things, I know that you would. :)
>
> For same price i found some Heds 5500 E05 and US digital E3-1000-315-I.
>
> The servo motor i got coming has a Tach on it, dont know any of the TACH specs yet. Can a tach be used by kflop to close the loop?
>
> Thanks again,
> Troy
>
> --- In mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Troy,
> >  
> > I've not a big fan of those.  They work differently than a standard optical encoder that puts out nice clean equally spaced encoder "steps".  Instead they use software interpolation of just a few poles which results in some noise and non-linearity and pulses that come in an irregular manner.  But some users have reported good results.  See: 
> >  
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DynoMotion/message/4103
> >  
> > Regards
> > TK
> >  
> >  
> >
> > From: tmday7 <brotroy7@>
> > To: mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 8:24 PM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
> >
> >
> >  
> > Tom,
> > Got the starts of a 4th axis and was wondering what you think of this encoder for a DC servo with kflop closing the loop.
> > http://www.amtencoder.com/Product/AMT102
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Troy
> >
> > --- In mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Bengt,
> > >
> > > If you have a Servo as your Spindle that is very possible.  You could use an M
> > > code to execute a program in KFLOP to reconfigure your Coordinate System to
> > > either include the axis as the A axis or to not include it (have it operate as a
> > > spindle).  It might also set a global persist variable so that the Spindle.c
> > > program knows what output to control as the current spindle for M3,M4,M5,S
> > > commands (mill spindle or lathe spindle).  You wouldn't need any external logic
> > > board to do any switching. 
> > >
> > >
> > > If the Spindle is controlled as an axis it can easily be commanded to positions
> > > as well as commanded to jog at constant speed like a Spindle.  Also the encoder
> > > position can be used to gear the Z axis for threading and rigid tapping.  It is
> > > just a matter of the axis is told to do.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > TK
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > To: mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wed, April 13, 2011 8:58:48 AM
> > > Subject: [DynoMotion] 4:th axis combined spindle
> > >
> > >  
> > > Hi Tom,
> > > Planning for future where I want to be able to use A-axis and switch over to use
> > > this axis as Spindle. Have a look at following at Youtube
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2-Kdud7eiA&feature=BF&list=UL1xv603HHs3U&index=10
> > >
> > >
> > > This for smaller parts all-in-one instead of lathe job first then mill.
> > > He is using somekind of logic board to make the switch from A-axis to Spindle.
> > > How can this be done with Kflop/Kanalog? I am planning to use a smallish AC
> > > servo for this ~.5kW 7500 max rpm with 2:1 or 3:1 belt drive.
> > > Cheers
> > > Bengt
> > >
> >
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 5370 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 6/29/2012
Subject: Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
Hi Troy,
 
Not really.  If you didn't have an encoder it coud be used for speed control but it wouldn't work for threading.  For threading the spindle position is required.  An encoder is simpler to connect and provides both position and velocity.
 
Regards
TK

Group: DynoMotion Message: 5371 From: tmday7 Date: 6/29/2012
Subject: Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
Ok. I like simpler anyhow.:) Strangely enough someone just started a post on Gecko about the same AMT encoder and its delay issues.

The US Digital iam looking at has 1000 CPR instead of the more common 1024, do you know if the 1000 might cause an issue somewhere down the road?

Thanks,
Troy
--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Troy,
>  
> Not really.  If you didn't have an encoder it coud be used for speed control but it wouldn't work for threading.  For threading the spindle position is required.  An encoder is simpler to connect and provides both position and velocity.
>  
> Regards
> TK
>
> From: tmday7 <brotroy7@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 12:01 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
>
>
>  
> Hi Tom,
> I found the optical cost on ebay. :) Could the Tach be usefull when using the 4th axis as a lathe spindle?
>
> Thanks,
> Troy
>
> --- In mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Troy,
> >  
> > I thought the main attraction or the AMT encoders was cost. I thought you can get them for ~$29 where optical encoders are at least double that.
> >  
> > Regarding the Tach: no a tachometer measures velocity not position. It can be helpful to stabilize the servo especially when glass scales are used. But if you have a high resolution encoder on the motor shaft then motor shaft velocity can be derived from the encoder so a Tach is not really useful.
> >  
> > Regards
> > TK
> >
> >
> > From: tmday7 <brotroy7@>
> > To: mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 11:16 AM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
> >
> >
> >  
> > Hi Tom,
> > Ya ive seen some of others posted results, but if anyone is going to know of pros and cons of such things, I know that you would. :)
> >
> > For same price i found some Heds 5500 E05 and US digital E3-1000-315-I.
> >
> > The servo motor i got coming has a Tach on it, dont know any of the TACH specs yet. Can a tach be used by kflop to close the loop?
> >
> > Thanks again,
> > Troy
> >
> > --- In mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Troy,
> > >  
> > > I've not a big fan of those.  They work differently than a standard optical encoder that puts out nice clean equally spaced encoder "steps".  Instead they use software interpolation of just a few poles which results in some noise and non-linearity and pulses that come in an irregular manner.  But some users have reported good results.  See: 
> > >  
> > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DynoMotion/message/4103
> > >  
> > > Regards
> > > TK
> > >  
> > >  
> > >
> > > From: tmday7 <brotroy7@>
> > > To: mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 8:24 PM
> > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > > Tom,
> > > Got the starts of a 4th axis and was wondering what you think of this encoder for a DC servo with kflop closing the loop.
> > > http://www.amtencoder.com/Product/AMT102
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Troy
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Bengt,
> > > >
> > > > If you have a Servo as your Spindle that is very possible.ÃÆ'‚  You could use an M
> > > > code to execute a program in KFLOP to reconfigure yourÃÆ'‚ Coordinate SystemÃÆ'‚ to
> > > > either include the axis as the A axis or to not include it (have it operate as a
> > > > spindle).ÃÆ'‚  It might also set a global persist variable so that the Spindle.c
> > > > program knows what output to control as the current spindle for M3,M4,M5,S
> > > > commands (mill spindle or lathe spindle).ÃÆ'‚  You wouldn't need any external logic
> > > > board to do any switching.ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If the Spindle is controlled as an axis it can easily be commanded to positions
> > > > as well as commanded to jog at constant speed like a Spindle.ÃÆ'‚  Also the encoder
> > > > position can be used to gear the Z axis for threading and rigid tapping.ÃÆ'‚  It is
> > > > just a matter ofÃÆ'‚ the axis is told to do.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > TK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > > To: mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Wed, April 13, 2011 8:58:48 AM
> > > > Subject: [DynoMotion] 4:th axis combined spindle
> > > >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > Hi Tom,
> > > > Planning for future where I want to be able to use A-axis and switch over to use
> > > > this axis as Spindle. Have a look at following at Youtube
> > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2-Kdud7eiA&feature=BF&list=UL1xv603HHs3U&index=10
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This for smaller parts all-in-one instead of lathe job first then mill.
> > > > He is using somekind of logic board to make the switch from A-axis to Spindle.
> > > > How can this be done with Kflop/Kanalog? I am planning to use a smallish AC
> > > > servo for this ~.5kW 7500 max rpm with 2:1 or 3:1 belt drive.
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Bengt
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 5372 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 6/29/2012
Subject: Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
Should not be a problem.
 
TK

Group: DynoMotion Message: 5373 From: tmday7 Date: 6/29/2012
Subject: Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
Nevermind, someone just bought them out from under me. >: I learn to keep my mouth shut.

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "tmday7" <brotroy7@...> wrote:
>
>
> Ok. I like simpler anyhow.:) Strangely enough someone just started a post on Gecko about the same AMT encoder and its delay issues.
>
> The US Digital iam looking at has 1000 CPR instead of the more common 1024, do you know if the 1000 might cause an issue somewhere down the road?
>
> Thanks,
> Troy
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Troy,
> >  
> > Not really.  If you didn't have an encoder it coud be used for speed control but it wouldn't work for threading.  For threading the spindle position is required.  An encoder is simpler to connect and provides both position and velocity.
> >  
> > Regards
> > TK
> >
> > From: tmday7 <brotroy7@>
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 12:01 PM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
> >
> >
> >  
> > Hi Tom,
> > I found the optical cost on ebay. :) Could the Tach be usefull when using the 4th axis as a lathe spindle?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Troy
> >
> > --- In mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Troy,
> > >  
> > > I thought the main attraction or the AMT encoders was cost. I thought you can get them for ~$29 where optical encoders are at least double that.
> > >  
> > > Regarding the Tach: no a tachometer measures velocity not position. It can be helpful to stabilize the servo especially when glass scales are used. But if you have a high resolution encoder on the motor shaft then motor shaft velocity can be derived from the encoder so a Tach is not really useful.
> > >  
> > > Regards
> > > TK
> > >
> > >
> > > From: tmday7 <brotroy7@>
> > > To: mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 11:16 AM
> > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > > Hi Tom,
> > > Ya ive seen some of others posted results, but if anyone is going to know of pros and cons of such things, I know that you would. :)
> > >
> > > For same price i found some Heds 5500 E05 and US digital E3-1000-315-I.
> > >
> > > The servo motor i got coming has a Tach on it, dont know any of the TACH specs yet. Can a tach be used by kflop to close the loop?
> > >
> > > Thanks again,
> > > Troy
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Troy,
> > > >  
> > > > I've not a big fan of those.  They work differently than a standard optical encoder that puts out nice clean equally spaced encoder "steps".  Instead they use software interpolation of just a few poles which results in some noise and non-linearity and pulses that come in an irregular manner.  But some users have reported good results.  See: 
> > > >  
> > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DynoMotion/message/4103
> > > >  
> > > > Regards
> > > > TK
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > > From: tmday7 <brotroy7@>
> > > > To: mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 8:24 PM
> > > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > > Tom,
> > > > Got the starts of a 4th axis and was wondering what you think of this encoder for a DC servo with kflop closing the loop.
> > > > http://www.amtencoder.com/Product/AMT102
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Troy
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Bengt,
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have a Servo as your Spindle that is very possible.ÃÆ'‚  You could use an M
> > > > > code to execute a program in KFLOP to reconfigure yourÃÆ'‚ Coordinate SystemÃÆ'‚ to
> > > > > either include the axis as the A axis or to not include it (have it operate as a
> > > > > spindle).ÃÆ'‚  It might also set a global persist variable so that the Spindle.c
> > > > > program knows what output to control as the current spindle for M3,M4,M5,S
> > > > > commands (mill spindle or lathe spindle).ÃÆ'‚  You wouldn't need any external logic
> > > > > board to do any switching.ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If the Spindle is controlled as an axis it can easily be commanded to positions
> > > > > as well as commanded to jog at constant speed like a Spindle.ÃÆ'‚  Also the encoder
> > > > > position can be used to gear the Z axis for threading and rigid tapping.ÃÆ'‚  It is
> > > > > just a matter ofÃÆ'‚ the axis is told to do.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > TK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > > > To: mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Wed, April 13, 2011 8:58:48 AM
> > > > > Subject: [DynoMotion] 4:th axis combined spindle
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > Hi Tom,
> > > > > Planning for future where I want to be able to use A-axis and switch over to use
> > > > > this axis as Spindle. Have a look at following at Youtube
> > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2-Kdud7eiA&feature=BF&list=UL1xv603HHs3U&index=10
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This for smaller parts all-in-one instead of lathe job first then mill.
> > > > > He is using somekind of logic board to make the switch from A-axis to Spindle.
> > > > > How can this be done with Kflop/Kanalog? I am planning to use a smallish AC
> > > > > servo for this ~.5kW 7500 max rpm with 2:1 or 3:1 belt drive.
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Bengt
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 5374 From: tmday7 Date: 6/29/2012
Subject: Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
Boy, yahoo is getting slow.
Thanks much again for your priceless help and patience Tom.

Troy

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Should not be a problem.
>  
> TK
>
> From: tmday7 <brotroy7@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 1:48 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
>
>
>  
>
> Ok. I like simpler anyhow.:) Strangely enough someone just started a post on Gecko about the same AMT encoder and its delay issues.
>
> The US Digital iam looking at has 1000 CPR instead of the more common 1024, do you know if the 1000 might cause an issue somewhere down the road?
>
> Thanks,
> Troy
> --- In mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Troy,
> >  
> > Not really.  If you didn't have an encoder it coud be used for speed control but it wouldn't work for threading.  For threading the spindle position is required.  An encoder is simpler to connect and provides both position and velocity.
> >  
> > Regards
> > TK
> >
> > From: tmday7 <brotroy7@>
> > To: mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 12:01 PM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
> >
> >
> >  
> > Hi Tom,
> > I found the optical cost on ebay. :) Could the Tach be usefull when using the 4th axis as a lathe spindle?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Troy
> >
> > --- In mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Troy,
> > >  
> > > I thought the main attraction or the AMT encoders was cost. I thought you can get them for ~$29 where optical encoders are at least double that.
> > >  
> > > Regarding the Tach: no a tachometer measures velocity not position. It can be helpful to stabilize the servo especially when glass scales are used. But if you have a high resolution encoder on the motor shaft then motor shaft velocity can be derived from the encoder so a Tach is not really useful.
> > >  
> > > Regards
> > > TK
> > >
> > >
> > > From: tmday7 <brotroy7@>
> > > To: mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 11:16 AM
> > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > > Hi Tom,
> > > Ya ive seen some of others posted results, but if anyone is going to know of pros and cons of such things, I know that you would. :)
> > >
> > > For same price i found some Heds 5500 E05 and US digital E3-1000-315-I.
> > >
> > > The servo motor i got coming has a Tach on it, dont know any of the TACH specs yet. Can a tach be used by kflop to close the loop?
> > >
> > > Thanks again,
> > > Troy
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Troy,
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > I've not a big fan of those.ÃÆ'‚  They work differently than a standard optical encoder that puts out nice clean equally spaced encoder "steps".ÃÆ'‚  Instead they use software interpolation of just a few poles which results in some noise and non-linearity and pulses that come in an irregular manner.ÃÆ'‚  But some users have reported good results.ÃÆ'‚  See:ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DynoMotion/message/4103
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > Regards
> > > > TK
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > >
> > > > From: tmday7 <brotroy7@>
> > > > To: mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 8:24 PM
> > > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > Tom,
> > > > Got the starts of a 4th axis and was wondering what you think of this encoder for a DC servo with kflop closing the loop.
> > > > http://www.amtencoder.com/Product/AMT102
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Troy
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Bengt,
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have a Servo as your Spindle that is very possible.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  You could use an M
> > > > > code to execute a program in KFLOP to reconfigure yourÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ Coordinate SystemÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ to
> > > > > either include the axis as the A axis or to not include it (have it operate as a
> > > > > spindle).ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  It might also set a global persist variable so that the Spindle.c
> > > > > program knows what output to control as the current spindle for M3,M4,M5,S
> > > > > commands (mill spindle or lathe spindle).ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  You wouldn't need any external logic
> > > > > board to do any switching.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If the Spindle is controlled as an axis it can easily be commanded to positions
> > > > > as well as commanded to jog at constant speed like a Spindle.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  Also the encoder
> > > > > position can be used to gear the Z axis for threading and rigid tapping.ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚  It is
> > > > > just a matter ofÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ the axis is told to do.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > TK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > > > To: mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Wed, April 13, 2011 8:58:48 AM
> > > > > Subject: [DynoMotion] 4:th axis combined spindle
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > Hi Tom,
> > > > > Planning for future where I want to be able to use A-axis and switch over to use
> > > > > this axis as Spindle. Have a look at following at Youtube
> > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2-Kdud7eiA&feature=BF&list=UL1xv603HHs3U&index=10
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This for smaller parts all-in-one instead of lathe job first then mill.
> > > > > He is using somekind of logic board to make the switch from A-axis to Spindle.
> > > > > How can this be done with Kflop/Kanalog? I am planning to use a smallish AC
> > > > > servo for this ~.5kW 7500 max rpm with 2:1 or 3:1 belt drive.
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Bengt
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 5375 From: tmday7 Date: 6/29/2012
Subject: Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
Anyhow, would the 1000 CPR cause an issue that you know of?

Thanks,
Troy

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "tmday7" <brotroy7@...> wrote:
>
>
> Ok. I like simpler anyhow.:) Strangely enough someone just started a post on Gecko about the same AMT encoder and its delay issues.
>
> The US Digital iam looking at has 1000 CPR instead of the more common 1024, do you know if the 1000 might cause an issue somewhere down the road?
>
> Thanks,
> Troy
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Troy,
> >  
> > Not really.  If you didn't have an encoder it coud be used for speed control but it wouldn't work for threading.  For threading the spindle position is required.  An encoder is simpler to connect and provides both position and velocity.
> >  
> > Regards
> > TK
> >
> > From: tmday7 <brotroy7@>
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 12:01 PM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
> >
> >
> >  
> > Hi Tom,
> > I found the optical cost on ebay. :) Could the Tach be usefull when using the 4th axis as a lathe spindle?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Troy
> >
> > --- In mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Troy,
> > >  
> > > I thought the main attraction or the AMT encoders was cost. I thought you can get them for ~$29 where optical encoders are at least double that.
> > >  
> > > Regarding the Tach: no a tachometer measures velocity not position. It can be helpful to stabilize the servo especially when glass scales are used. But if you have a high resolution encoder on the motor shaft then motor shaft velocity can be derived from the encoder so a Tach is not really useful.
> > >  
> > > Regards
> > > TK
> > >
> > >
> > > From: tmday7 <brotroy7@>
> > > To: mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 11:16 AM
> > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > > Hi Tom,
> > > Ya ive seen some of others posted results, but if anyone is going to know of pros and cons of such things, I know that you would. :)
> > >
> > > For same price i found some Heds 5500 E05 and US digital E3-1000-315-I.
> > >
> > > The servo motor i got coming has a Tach on it, dont know any of the TACH specs yet. Can a tach be used by kflop to close the loop?
> > >
> > > Thanks again,
> > > Troy
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Troy,
> > > >  
> > > > I've not a big fan of those.  They work differently than a standard optical encoder that puts out nice clean equally spaced encoder "steps".  Instead they use software interpolation of just a few poles which results in some noise and non-linearity and pulses that come in an irregular manner.  But some users have reported good results.  See: 
> > > >  
> > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DynoMotion/message/4103
> > > >  
> > > > Regards
> > > > TK
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > > From: tmday7 <brotroy7@>
> > > > To: mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 8:24 PM
> > > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  
> > > > Tom,
> > > > Got the starts of a 4th axis and was wondering what you think of this encoder for a DC servo with kflop closing the loop.
> > > > http://www.amtencoder.com/Product/AMT102
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Troy
> > > >
> > > > --- In mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Bengt,
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have a Servo as your Spindle that is very possible.ÃÆ'‚  You could use an M
> > > > > code to execute a program in KFLOP to reconfigure yourÃÆ'‚ Coordinate SystemÃÆ'‚ to
> > > > > either include the axis as the A axis or to not include it (have it operate as a
> > > > > spindle).ÃÆ'‚  It might also set a global persist variable so that the Spindle.c
> > > > > program knows what output to control as the current spindle for M3,M4,M5,S
> > > > > commands (mill spindle or lathe spindle).ÃÆ'‚  You wouldn't need any external logic
> > > > > board to do any switching.ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If the Spindle is controlled as an axis it can easily be commanded to positions
> > > > > as well as commanded to jog at constant speed like a Spindle.ÃÆ'‚  Also the encoder
> > > > > position can be used to gear the Z axis for threading and rigid tapping.ÃÆ'‚  It is
> > > > > just a matter ofÃÆ'‚ the axis is told to do.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > TK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > > > To: mailto:DynoMotion%40yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Wed, April 13, 2011 8:58:48 AM
> > > > > Subject: [DynoMotion] 4:th axis combined spindle
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > Hi Tom,
> > > > > Planning for future where I want to be able to use A-axis and switch over to use
> > > > > this axis as Spindle. Have a look at following at Youtube
> > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2-Kdud7eiA&feature=BF&list=UL1xv603HHs3U&index=10
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This for smaller parts all-in-one instead of lathe job first then mill.
> > > > > He is using somekind of logic board to make the switch from A-axis to Spindle.
> > > > > How can this be done with Kflop/Kanalog? I am planning to use a smallish AC
> > > > > servo for this ~.5kW 7500 max rpm with 2:1 or 3:1 belt drive.
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Bengt
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 1041 From: Bengt Sjoelund Date: 4/13/2011
Subject: 4:th axis combined spindle
Hi Tom,
Planning for future where I want to be able to use A-axis and switch over to use this axis as Spindle. Have a look at following at Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2-Kdud7eiA&feature=BF&list=UL1xv603HHs3U&index=10

This for smaller parts all-in-one instead of lathe job first then mill.
He is using somekind of logic board to make the switch from A-axis to Spindle. How can this be done with Kflop/Kanalog? I am planning to use a smallish AC servo for this ~.5kW 7500 max rpm with 2:1 or 3:1 belt drive.
Cheers
Bengt
Group: DynoMotion Message: 1042 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 4/13/2011
Subject: Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
Hi Bengt,
 
If you have a Servo as your Spindle that is very possible.  You could use an M code to execute a program in KFLOP to reconfigure your Coordinate System to either include the axis as the A axis or to not include it (have it operate as a spindle).  It might also set a global persist variable so that the Spindle.c program knows what output to control as the current spindle for M3,M4,M5,S commands (mill spindle or lathe spindle).  You wouldn't need any external logic board to do any switching. 
 
If the Spindle is controlled as an axis it can easily be commanded to positions as well as commanded to jog at constant speed like a Spindle.  Also the encoder position can be used to gear the Z axis for threading and rigid tapping.  It is just a matter of the axis is told to do.
Regards
TK

Group: DynoMotion Message: 1043 From: Bengt Sjoelund Date: 4/13/2011
Subject: Re: 4:th axis combined spindle
Hi Tom,
I was kind of hoping you would answer like this :)
So it's back to the drawing board and see what kind of mechanics I can do for this new axis.
Cheers
Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
>
> If you have a Servo as your Spindle that is very possible.  You could use an M
> code to execute a program in KFLOP to reconfigure your Coordinate System to
> either include the axis as the A axis or to not include it (have it operate as a
> spindle).  It might also set a global persist variable so that the Spindle.c
> program knows what output to control as the current spindle for M3,M4,M5,S
> commands (mill spindle or lathe spindle).  You wouldn't need any external logic
> board to do any switching. 
>
>
> If the Spindle is controlled as an axis it can easily be commanded to positions
> as well as commanded to jog at constant speed like a Spindle.  Also the encoder
> position can be used to gear the Z axis for threading and rigid tapping.  It is
> just a matter of the axis is told to do.
>
> Regards
> TK
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, April 13, 2011 8:58:48 AM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] 4:th axis combined spindle
>
>  
> Hi Tom,
> Planning for future where I want to be able to use A-axis and switch over to use
> this axis as Spindle. Have a look at following at Youtube
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2-Kdud7eiA&feature=BF&list=UL1xv603HHs3U&index=10
>
>
> This for smaller parts all-in-one instead of lathe job first then mill.
> He is using somekind of logic board to make the switch from A-axis to Spindle.
> How can this be done with Kflop/Kanalog? I am planning to use a smallish AC
> servo for this ~.5kW 7500 max rpm with 2:1 or 3:1 belt drive.
> Cheers
> Bengt
>